Bishop Airport Plane Crash Tower Audio 11-16-2011

Here is the audio recording from the tower traffic for the plane that crashed at bishop airpot this morning.

KFNT Audio

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Comments

[Dale]

Very professional air-traffic controller. She modified the plan on the fly to fit the situation. Good job Air Controller.

[Gary Jarod]

This airplane is the Ferrari of the sky and flies like an F16 with a landing speed of 130 Knots. If you listen to the tower communications, they not only had an engine out, but lost both gyros (you can hear one of the pilots tell the tower) and landed with a 20 mph 90 degree crosswind. As an Airbus Captain myself, start compounding no gyros and strong crosswindand it is a difficult attempt for anybody. I think these guys did a super job getting on the ground with all four walking away.

[56tfd]

it was vfr and the aircraft was equiped with AHARS

[DLM]

Be pleased to have her work me if I ever have an emergency.

[Captain James]

I was reluctant to respond to Gary's comment, but HAD to. Gary, I have somewhere around 5000 hours in the P180 so know the plane quite well. It DOES NOT fly like an F-16. We are on final at 125 to 130 knots. We DO NOT touchdown at 130 knots. Why would you even say something like that? (Just curious).

The plane DID NOT lose both "gyros"......(See the comment above about AHRS) (That is an Avanti II with proline 21 avionics) Again, why would you even type that statement????? The reason the radio transmission was said is because the tower operator asked Avantair 168 if he had the airport in sight (obviously because of his location and direction of flight) and he wasn't setting up for a base entry to runway 27. He tried to CYA by making the remark about the "gyro"..........That's when she was pro-active (and I agree.....a VERY good controller) and cleared all the airport vehicles off 18/36 and then cleared the Avanti to land on ANY runway.....and he did arrive on 18/36.

I won't comment on the reason for the accident (I wasn't there)......however I do know how/why it took place. I have made more than one single-engine approach and landing in the P180......it is very docile......you just have to keep your wits about you and THINK about what to do AFTER the plane is on the runway and how to bring it to a safe stop.

It's a wonderful plane. I am so happy to hear that any injuries were minor in nature.

Anyone who comments here......PLEASE, PLEASE research your information before posting and maybe proof read the words before you hit "Create Post"

[Jason]

Maybe someone forget they were down to one engine after landing? It is not hard to forget.... Under the right amount of stress and not keeping your cool its easy to throw the engine into BETA.... Just a thought....

[30west]

Gary, if you meant your comment about being an aviator "compounding no gyros and strong crosswindand it is a difficult attempt for anybody" I hope none of my love ones are ever on your aircraft. Those are some pretty low standards. We are talking VFR and basic airmenship. After all there was at least one ATP onboard.

[WIngman]

poor poor pilot skills, they are lucky. the aircraft has counter rotating engines so there is no "critical" engine during a failure. they do have some issues with the nose wheel steering. I agree with Capt james its a very docile aircraft on one engine and has plenty of power with one engine also. They need some more training and life knocked off of their 9. controller made the right choice and gave them the entire airport to pick out a safe solution, the failed miserabley. Hey Airbius capt please let me know when you are flying so i can step off and take the bus.

[Captain James]

Wingman and 30west I agree with your statements completely. I have no way of knowing of course, but I strongly doubt if Gary is an "Airbus Captain" (or even a pilot at all). I have a lot of airline pilot buddies, and most are class acts and would not write the 'crappola' he did. (This guy has zero time in the P180, for sure)

"IF" he is an airline pilot I, as well as you guys, wouldn't want to fly in the back of his Airbus......ESPECIALLY if he had a minor annoyance in the instrumentation systems or even worse.......an engine out. Just saying......................

[Cocoa Puffs]

It is interesting to see all the comments on an accident where all on board walk away... I am an occasional contract pilot on the P180 and been flying the airplane since 2004. Some of you are correct, some of you just speculate. The AFM gives you specific approach and touch-down speeds according to weight, x-wind, wind-shear and so on. But if you do not mind a small 1-3 knots difference, then the rule of thumb is approach speed of 130 and touch-down of 120 with 2 engines op and flaps down. One engine inop, max flaps is MID position and speeds go up by 10 knots so the Airbus captain was CORRECT when he mentioned the 130 kts- 1 engine inop remember ??!!! Then, this particular airplane is extremely sensitive on steering - old Learjet poor design combined with the fact that it has absolutely no anti-skid or anti-lock brakes. On top of that (steering related issue), you CAN NOT engage steering until you are 40 kts or below so basically the pilot had to bleed at least 90 kts before doing so. As they landed, they had some pretty strong x-winds and with a very sleek fuselage and a huge vertical stabilizer (in comparison), the plane is very "corky" on the runway after touch down (also very narrow wheel base). So all the comments about what happened are basically speculations. The only people who really know are the crew on that flight, maybe the controller and ground personnel that witnessed the accident and hopefully the NTSB inspectors after they complete the investigation. Happy everyone walked away and really hope this will never happen again.

[RoboPilot]

Captain James, you might want to go back for some training with your 5000 hours. Vref for a P-180 single engine flaps mid is 130 and as Cocoa Puffs stated, add 140 on approach.

[Captain James]

RoboPilot......School is always a good thing. I think my comment(s) were misinterpreted. Gary said the "landing speed" of the P180 is 130 knots. (Maybe he meant approach speed). Your comments about the Vref speed is 'spot on'

Cocoa Puffs - - your comments are also correct. The steering system is quirky to say the least. I've been told by my friends at Piaggio America there will be a MAJOR upgrade to the steering system sometime in 2012. (Let's hope) By the way, Piaggio Aero issued a SL a while back to instruct the flight crews to NOT engage the steering after landing until you are at taxi speed.

Happy Holidays to all.

[glassman]

This is very sad and I'm glad that nobody died, but unfortunately I'm not really surprised that this happen at all and frankly I'm really surprised that this company is still in business, I used to work for them years ago and their maintenance and pilot training is terrible and I'm sure it hasn't got any better, I would stay away from Avantair at all cost and keep your loved ones safe!

[jdhines]

someone should look into the accident history for avantair also known as skyline aviation. this would be i believe their third accident with a p180.